View source for Category talk:General concepts

==Category content==
''copied from [[Pages voted for deletion]] discussion. 11:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)''

* [[:Category:General_concepts]] seems to have been created just as some sort of placeholder. Most of its articles are either lame or stubs, and nobody seems to want to add this category to the main page. If we got rid of this category we could re-assign any articles in it worth salvaging. [[User:Tanstaafl|Tanstaafl]] 21:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
: '''Keep'''. It is indeed a placeholder for articles that describe general concepts. It's important that we have somewhere that explains what (for example) HTML or a user agent is when we have to mention it in the real articles.--[[User:Np|Np]] 22:23, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
: '''Delete'''.  We could always link to Wikipedia for definitions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Html HTML] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascading_Style_Sheets CSS] or other general concepts.   Articles that apply to Mozilla applications like [[Kill application]] can be moved to the appropriate application categories. ([[Talkback]] is already in application categories).  [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 02:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
::The reason we're trying to to keep them out of the application categories is that it's somewhat confusing the way that Mediawiki presents categories and articles on the same page - the user may be lead to think the the list of articles for a category includes the articles in the subcategories, but they don't. A general concepts category allows us to categorize articles somewhere while not leading to confusion.--[[User:Np|Np]] 21:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
::: By ''we're trying to to keep them out of the application categories'' do you mean individual "general concept" articles like [[HTML]] and [[CSS]] that have nothing specifically to do with Mozilla applications?  That's why I think that no separate KB articles should exist for these concepts, or at least no new article, since we have enough problems keeping on top of Mozilla-related articles.  Wikipedia links for this type of content would be much more current and detailed.  I'm proposing to redirect those  [[:Category:General_concepts | general concept]] articles which cannot be properly classified under another category to a page like [[User:Alice_Wyman/Proposed_article |this one]], which merges a number of those concept articles together with enough other information specific to  Firefox, Thunderbird or  Mozilla Suite that the consolidated article can be classified under the application categories.  At that point, the [[:Category:General_concepts]] category can be removed.  As for remaining articles that I didn't include in the consolidated article, do we really need an article like [[Internet Explorer]]  or the "Spelling" articles? How often do you link to these, or to [[Commonly used words]]?  I would propose to delete them if they can't be redirected or incorporated elsewhere. [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 22:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC) 

::::How about we keep the general concepts category, but replace most of the articles in it per [[:User:Alice_Wyman/Proposed_article]] ? That would reduce it basicly to the commonly used words, quality feedback agent, and imap articles plus the new article. I don't agree with the idea of propagating the merged article in each applications category, that just adds more clutter.   [[User:Tanstaafl|Tanstaafl]] 22:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'll create the  [[:User:Alice_Wyman/Proposed_article | merged article]] then,  and place it in the general concepts category to get the ball rolling.  Others can decide whether or not the new article can also be classified under any other categories.  I'll also leave it to others to decide about redirecting or eliminating unneeded articles in the category.  [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 13:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:I suggested redirecting the Bugzilla HTML and CSS articles to start, either to Wikipedia or to the merged article, whichever people prefer.  See the Talk pages [[Talk:CSS]],  [[Talk:HTML]] and [[Talk:Bugzilla]].  How about SVG also?  any others? [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 18:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 
:Oh, and if the proposal to delete the category is dead, as it seems to be, someone should remove the ''vfd'' from the category page, and any further discussion should be moved to the [[:Category:General_concepts]] Talk page. [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 20:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 

::'''Delete'''.  "...redirect Firefox to Category:Firefox...."  Don't put it in Category:Firefox.  It already appears there almost verbatim (but not as a link).  Voted for deletion.
:::I didn't say to put the article in Category:Firefox.  I said to ''redirect'' the article to the Category:Firefox page, where the contents of the article already appear... unfortunately I don't think it's currently possible, but something like [http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.php?title=Issues_with_Firefox&oldid=20671 this] could be done. [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 16:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
::Something bothers me about just referring to Wikipedia for articles about Mozilla products.  (1)The information is diluted with a lot of other stuff.  (2)We don't necessarily have any control over it.   --[[User:AnotherGuest.|AnotherGuest.]]
:::I tend to agree about not replacing the [[Product comparison matrix]] content with links to wikipedia, that's why I suggested incorporating and/or redirecting to another KB article such as [[Summary of Mozilla products]].  However, "General concept" articles that have nothing directly to do with Mozilla like [[HTML]] or [[CSS]] would be better off removed and replaced by wikipedia articles [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Html HTML] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascading_Style_Sheets CSS] like I mentioned.  We already do this in many articles, for example, [[Firewalls]] and [[Popups not blocked]] link to Wikipedia for definitions of "personal firewalls" and "spyware"/"malicious software"(malware). [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 16:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree redirecting the HTML/CSS stuff to Wikipedia where we have no Mozilla-specific info to provide. I still think [[Product comparison matrix]] should be redirected too - the Wikipedia article is up to date and much, much better than what we have.--[[User:Np|Np]] 21:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::  I think that the [[Product comparison matrix]] discussion should be continued here: [[Talk:Product_comparison_matrix#Just_point_to_Wikipedia]]. [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 20:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:This raises the question of whats [[:Category:Top_level]] really used for. If its contents don't effect the main page or the category hierarchy, is there any reason why its links for Firefox, Thunderbird, and Mozilla Suite couldn't be replaced by the ones in the introduction category? That would let us remove the introduction category without breaking the links from the Mozilla pages. We could move the product comparison article to top level or merge it with the existing [[:Summary_of_Mozilla_products]] if we want to keep it, and move the Mozilla article to general concepts. [[User:Tanstaafl|Tanstaafl]] 22:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:: Just a guess but but common sense tells me that the Top Level category is similar to the "root" folder on a computer; it's needed to hold all the other folders (categories) and files (articles).  The top-level category doesn't contain any Thunderbird or Mozilla Suite ''articles'', just the application category links.  The Top level category only contains only 6 articles: [[Camino]],  [[Firefox]],  [[Nvu]],  [[Former product names]]  [[Get Involved]] and [[Summary of Mozilla products]].   It already includes the same [[Firefox]] article that's under Introduction (the article must be kept because the official Mozilla site links to it - see [[Talk:Firefox#VFD]].  The [[Thunderbird]] and [[Mozilla Suite]] articles should be kept but moved to the Top-level category for similar reasons (other sites that may link there.) [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 13:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the vfd tag from [[:Category:General_concepts]] . I didn't delete this topic yet since there doesn't seem to be any redirecting of articles that are only in that category or has text stating they are stubs, to the appropiate section in the general concepts article. Does anybody object to my doing that? [[User:Tanstaafl|Tanstaafl]] 01:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
: I've proposed redirection on the individual article Talk pages.   I just redirected [[HTML]] [[CSS]] and [[Bugzilla]] to [[General concepts]].  Still pending are [[RSS]] [[IRC]] [[SVG]] and [[User agent]] (I figure I'd wait awhile for any objections?).  I was just thinking what to do with [[Internet Explorer]] this moment... maybe merge with [[Uninstalling Internet Explorer]]?  [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 02:25, 8 September 2006 (UTC)   
::Sorry, I hadn't noticed those talk pages. I suggest you scrap the IE article since its just a stub (that doesn't seem to add any real value) which isn't used by any other category. If you think it does have value I think it'd be more appropiate to merge it in your general concepts article than the uninstalling IE article. [[User:Tanstaafl|Tanstaafl]] 10:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:::If you want to vfd the IE article that's OK too (to tell the truth, I don't even know how to delete an article!) but I had planned to replace the contents of the [[Internet Explorer]] article with the contents of [[Uninstalling Internet Explorer]]  (keeping only the "Internet Explorer" article name) since I just edited the "Uninstalling" article to add the useful  information from  the "IE" article. ... See [[Talk:Uninstalling Internet Explorer]].   Speaking of vfd candidates, what about [[OS temporary folder]]?  Only one article links to it and that link could be replaced with the contents of the article which isn't much.  [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 15:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)  
:::Just wanted to add  [[Logo fonts for Mozilla projects]] as another possible vfd candidate.  Also,  I removed the "General concepts" category from these articles: [[Quality Feedback Agent]] [[IMAP]] [[Internal project names]] [[Java]] and [[JavaScript]] because 1) they are already included in other categories and 2) they are listed,  and linked to, in the new [[General concepts]] article, which now provides a handy place  ''that explains what (for example) HTML or a user agent is when we have to mention it in the real articles'', as mentioned by Np above.   [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 22:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::: [[RSS]] [[IRC]] [[SVG]] and [[User agent]] have been redirected to [[General concepts]]. [[Uninstalling Internet Explorer]] and  [[Internet Explorer]] have been merged.  I guess that does it for the category, as far as I can see, except for maybe getting rid of [[OS temporary folder]] and [[Logo fonts for Mozilla projects]] which i suggested earlier, since I don't really want to clutter up the [[General concepts]] article with them.  [[User:Alice Wyman|Alice Wyman]] 11:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)