Knowledge Base changes: Difference between revisions

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:::Regarding the dispute you mention, this is exactly where dispute resolution would come in. Right now, the only way to "win" a dispute is to convince the other editor or to be more persistent in implementing your version. With a dispute resolution process, the latter is replaced with an official process that takes less time, is less alienating and frustrating, and is more likely to yield the "correct" solution.--[[User:Np|Np]] 18:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Regarding the dispute you mention, this is exactly where dispute resolution would come in. Right now, the only way to "win" a dispute is to convince the other editor or to be more persistent in implementing your version. With a dispute resolution process, the latter is replaced with an official process that takes less time, is less alienating and frustrating, and is more likely to yield the "correct" solution.--[[User:Np|Np]] 18:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


::::"For example, should support articles present easy information to users to get them going again, or should they explain things in detail?"
::::Both, but sometimes often there are no easy answers because there are too many variables or unknowns.  Sometimes the best that can be done is to explain how things work and suggest a check list or some guidelines for troubleshooting.
::::"Should solutions be referenced so we know editors aren't just making stuff up?"
::::Yes and no.  What would you reference for the Standard Diagnostic?  That's more of a messy consensus than a referenceable procedure.  Although it may not be efficacious to reference a procedure, information should usually be referenced unless it's common knowledge and beyond dispute.  --[[User:AnotherGuest.|AnotherGuest]] 7 Dec 06


===Quality control and KB article feedback===
===Quality control and KB article feedback===

Revision as of 19:33, 7 December 2006

This page has been created for several reasons.

  • It would be nice to have a place where new editors can introduce themselves and meet existing editors.
  • It would be good to allow new editors to safely propose content changes (minor or major) prior to implementing them.
  • It would be good to have a central location to discuss the style, content and organisation of this Knowledge Base. (Some of the ideas in Talk:Knowledge Base can be migrated here, leaving that page solely for discussion of the front page article itself.
  • This page was an attempt to address incidents that have occured on the KB where some groups of editors have been unaware of major changes being made by other groups of editors.

This page is the primary place to announce new suggestions. Whenever possible, issues should be discussed in a more appropriate place, such as the discussion page of the article or category that the suggestion affects.

Once suggestions are resolved, they are moved to Knowledge Base changes/Archive.

Welcome to new editors

Hello! Great to have you here. Please add a comment here :-)

  • Hello Knowledge Base! FJ reporting to duty! *bows at all* FatJohn 11:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I guess I'm new, I am "name already taken" from the forums, hello to everyone! --Lethargy 21:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Ownership and dispute resolution

Prompted by the comments in this forum thread, I believe we need to some sort of dispute resolution mechanism and general guidelines in the KB. Otherwise, disagreements can easily escalate into edit wars and contributors leaving. The obvious solution is to have the Sysops handle these things, but I don't know if there are enough active Sysops to present a decision ("The Sysops said so, so I'll do it" vs. "Np is crazy, screw him"). Thoughts?--Np 21:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I also noticed that thread and it wasn't a nice read. I've been overrun a few times myself. Usually with an accompanying explanation though. Maybe you need more sysops then. If a policy is made, it should be promptly introduced to new editors to make sure they're aware of it. PS. I wish all KB editors should "watch" this page. Could it be automatically inserted into new editors watchlist? --FatJohn 01:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
As of right now, the Sysops don't have the ability to change people's watchlists. Administrators might.--Np 03:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
First, what do you mean by "ownership"? Should articles be "owned" by different editors or Sysops who have the final say on edits, for example, give Vectorspace all the plugin articles, Tanstaafl all the Thunderbird articles and you and Unarmed take the preferences articles? Or did I misunderstand?
No, what I mean is that someone or a group of people is "in charge" of the Knowledge Base, to create and modify policy and resolve disputes between members. There would not be anyone in charge of particular articles; members would be free to edit as they currently do (of course, with the exception of the dispute resolution process and any new policy created). --Np 03:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Second, I think that the current system of resolving editing disputes by posting to the article's Talk page should work in 99% or the cases. Hopefully, other editors would add to the discussion but if not, or if the issue still isn't resolved after a reasonable period, I suppose a Request for mediation page might work, something similar to the Pages voted for deletion discussion? Or, maybe one of the involved parties could simply post a "Mediation request" here, on this page? Once such a request is made, further editing of the page by the disputing parties should cease until the editing conflict is resolved. Such a mediation request could also be looked at as a request for "quality review" of the article, since after all, what we really want is for the article to be well written, understandable by the intended reader and technically accurate. I mentioned in the forum thread that some sort of "KB quality control" process is needed, besides just hoping that errors are caught and fixed as people review the recent changes or happen to read an article and spot a problem. Alice Wyman 01:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the talk pages are usually sufficient in resolving disputes, though I suspect that many of disputes that arise are dropped by one of the parties to avoid the edit war. With a dispute resolution system, people wouldn't have to fear alienating users or entering an endless argument by asserting their views.
If you don't want people to risk alienating other editors then maybe a Request for quality review of the article (made by either one of the disputing parties OR by anyone else observing the conflict) would be the better route, but first a quality review process should be in place, hopefully similar to the review process taken before deleting an article, where everyone has the opportunity to contribute. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that a mediated compromise is preferable to an arbitrary Sysop decision (in the sense of mediation as opposed to arbitration). Of course it's easier for a Sysop to dictate what the resolution should be but I think that an open process where all editors are free to participate is better in the long term. Alice Wyman 12:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The ability to change policy would help with quality control - we could dictate by policy in general terms what an article should or shouldn't be like.--Np 03:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There are already general guidelines given in Rules#Editing_courtesy about documenting controversial changes (the linked Talk page even mentions using the Talk pages to suggest "Possible solutions to edit wars" in the "How to use Talk" section) so maybe that's where dispute resolution should be mentioned, but nothing specifically about quality guidelines, I guess because it's a difficult subject. Alice Wyman 12:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
We already have the ability to add a tag stating that the article doesn't meet wikipedia standards. The few times I've seen it used it didn't cause a dispute because it was pretty obvious that it deserved it. Perhaps the real issue is what types of disputes shouldn't be left to the talk pages. I remember the great difficulty several editors had dealing with one person who was basically kidnapping the anti-virus article to evangelize not using anti-virus software. That wasn't just two editors having a dispute, it was a case of whether one of the editors was acting inappropriately. Tanstaafl 15:47, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The issue isn't messy pages. We have plenty of standards for grammar and formatting, but none about content. For example, should support articles present easy information to users to get them going again, or should they explain things in detail? In what order should solutions be posted - easiest first or most likely first? Should solutions be referenced so we know editors aren't just making stuff up? This is the type of policy we don't have that I think we desperately need. With an official policy on these things, users would be more comfortable changing "other people's" articles.
Regarding the dispute you mention, this is exactly where dispute resolution would come in. Right now, the only way to "win" a dispute is to convince the other editor or to be more persistent in implementing your version. With a dispute resolution process, the latter is replaced with an official process that takes less time, is less alienating and frustrating, and is more likely to yield the "correct" solution.--Np 18:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
"For example, should support articles present easy information to users to get them going again, or should they explain things in detail?"
Both, but sometimes often there are no easy answers because there are too many variables or unknowns. Sometimes the best that can be done is to explain how things work and suggest a check list or some guidelines for troubleshooting.
"Should solutions be referenced so we know editors aren't just making stuff up?"
Yes and no. What would you reference for the Standard Diagnostic? That's more of a messy consensus than a referenceable procedure. Although it may not be efficacious to reference a procedure, information should usually be referenced unless it's common knowledge and beyond dispute. --AnotherGuest 7 Dec 06

Quality control and KB article feedback

The forum thread mentioned above also included comments about quality control and feedback regarding user support documentation in general and in KB articles. I suggested something here awhile back on a feedback process, when problems are found in KB articles (a "bad link" in the specific case I brought up) but got no response. I ended up adding a section on Feedback to the "About" article, but it brings up an important point. Maybe the concept of "KB feedback" should be expanded to include a process by which people on the forums (both helpers and people asking for help) who use a KB article can have a way of giving some feedback on how the article did or didn't help solve a problem? The process should not require the individual to set up a KB account just to post a comment on the article talk page, for obvious reasons. One option is to post a comment to the forum, but maybe a link at the bottom of every KB article to a Feedback form is another possibility (I don't have the technical ability myself to come up with such a page but I'm sure others here do!). Unfortunately, quality control and KB feedback is always going to result in potential alienation of editors if an error they've made is pointed out or if their contributions are rewritten or removed from an article, but that's the price you pay for trying to improve the quality of articles. Alice Wyman 12:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

How is that better than using the associated discussion page? The discussion of the tradeoffs of alienating an editor seems to make the assumption there was only one editor for that article. Maybe I have too thin a skin, but if somebody writes an article and does most of the maintenance of it (i.e. they have an emotional investment) I'm concerned about their reaction if it gets publicly criticized and they think its due to changes made by somebody else. The collaborative style of a wiki is the not the type of collaboration most people are used to. I think there is a tradeoff in how much of a big deal you make of any feedback when you don't have many editors and the most common "feedback" nowadays is somebody trying to misuse the article to ask a question that should be asked in the forum. Tanstaafl 15:47, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There are two types of feedback - that from other editors and that from users. I think the talk pages are fine for editors to post feedback. For users, we really need a "did this help?" feature like many other documentation sites have. Unfortunately, I doubt this is something that "comes with" MediaWiki - it would have to be built.--Np 18:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)